Published on:

21st Jan 2023

Podcasting Sucks! Jeff & Fuzz Catch Up

On this bonus episode of Podcasting Sucks!, Jeff Townsend and Fuzz Martin talk about the industry, where they are with their careers and podcasts, and their plans for the future. The episode is fun, lighthearted, and goes deep into their decision-making process.


Jeff Townsend 0:08

Welcome to podcasting sucks. I'm Jeff Townson, longtime podcaster. Never a great one. But luckily, I do have somebody that covers up my weaknesses with his strengths. It's my good friend fuzz to the Martin.

Fuzz Martin 0:24

How's it going? So Doug, good to see you. It's been a while it's been a month since we've actually recorded an episode. We launched an episode later because we ended up it was like around the holidays. And I was slammed with work and you were slammed with your multiple works. And and I've already recorded that I just butchered putting it up in time, didn't I? Just like you missed it by like a few, like, six hours. Had you gotten to six hours earlier? I probably could have gotten them. But then we would have a long pause between shows. And here we are right now. And this is fine that we're here together. We all have so much content if you want to hear Jeff's voice. There are so many podcasts that you can hear Jeff Townsend's voice on and same with

Jeff Townsend 1:09

me, but genuinely here my schedule right now. Fuzz? Yes, I do relate to how podcasting sucks. So I work the day job the business management manufacturing, work about eight to six, give or take maybe a little bit later, a little bit earlier, depending on the day. Then I have a few hours I spend with my kids eat dinner by nine o'clock. I then start the wish TV, all Indiana podcast, network director stuff. And I do that for a few hours. And then I start the podcast that I'm involved in. I got two professional wrestling pod with two podcasts with former professional wrestlers, and current one of them that I've kickin off, so I do that. So I get that in from about 11 or midnight to about two or three. Then I get up at 630 in the morning and I do it all again. That's that's been my schedule.

Fuzz Martin 2:05

It's gonna run you ragged man. It is. It is. So it's, uh, here's the thing. Are you are you enjoying it?

Jeff Townsend 2:15

Some parts of it? Yeah. But to say that I'm not just like tired is would be a lie. Right? Like,

Fuzz Martin 2:20

very so. So for my older

Jeff Townsend 2:22

angry, I'm pissed off, you know? Well, that's yeah.

Fuzz Martin 2:25

But we don't we don't need that. Because I need you to stay around and healthy and be podcasting into your, you know, late 90s.

Jeff Townsend 2:33

So 35 more years and I can retire. That's what I keep telling myself.

Fuzz Martin 2:38

Yeah, this isn't a government job. You're gonna have to keep grinding. The Are there any that you're currently making enough money off of that? You're like, Alright, I need to keep that one going. Because it's, it's feeding the feeding the kids?

Jeff Townsend 2:54

Well, the podcast network, obviously, it's gonna Yeah, that gets kids in college. Right. So

Fuzz Martin 3:00

let's be honest. Right, exactly.

Jeff Townsend 3:02

But the other ones Indiana stories, any any podcaster was making money. But of course, as you know, it's just basically promoting episodes of what we're doing or what you're doing. Yeah, but Indiana stories, I actually have not put an episode out and three weeks, I took the holiday time off. So I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with that. I and I, I'm very confident the two with the professional wrestlers, Austin Aries, build them out. And I'm talking to a few more actually, they will make money instantly just off a dynamic ad insertion volume, then go from there. answer your question. Yeah. But I think in the next couple of months, things will really be a completely different picture for me. I'm going to start schedule up. But

Fuzz Martin 3:44

I have a question around the dynamic ad insertion. So you were using Captivate? Have you moved to Spreaker

Jeff Townsend 3:52

I have not moved my I have not moved any podcaster or anything else that I'm doing. I have. I actually instantly was approved the I called I met with Spreaker. And I got it I got accepted into the Prime program once they heard who was going to be working with and so that's free. So that's how that comes into play at that dynamic ad insertion right off the bat. Because unfortunately, Captivate doesn't have that that'd be incredible. So that yes, you're right in

Fuzz Martin 4:20


Jeff Townsend 4:57

use it for as if I could write but I yeah when you're Working with, you know, these particular people that that's got to be a thing right off the bat.

Fuzz Martin 5:05

ngagements, she'll make a few:

Jeff Townsend 7:09

I think the good thing is, I've been wanting, I've been doing this for quite a while. But what I've always wanted to talk about is you know, I'd love professional wrestling. So to me, it's also, if I can get a good in this all scheduled out this day, that day, that day, if I get a good workflow going in a good system, I'm pretty confident going to keep the YouTube videos to a minimum, it's not going to be some crazy transitions is going to be a title than the video and then that, you know, whatever, I'm going to keep things simple. I'm going to keep the editing the audio portion simple. If I'm going to be doing that in the middle for the time being, you're not going to I'm probably not gonna be cutting out every um, but at that way. It's a different audience. It's funny, because I guess this is kind of on the topic. When I listen to a lot of these podcasts about professional wrestling, nostalgia, current product, whatever. They're not the best audio quality by any means fuzz at all right? I mean, obviously, they're massively massively popular. But it's kind of like a different thing. I don't. It doesn't even bother me when I listen to him. And I and I obviously know what good or bad audio is. I'm not like an audio engineer. But it's almost like it doesn't even matter if that makes sense. I don't know. It's just the stories and the people the personalities. They're not awful, though. They've come a long way. But some of them they used to actually be really bad. But it's still though you're used you just get used to it and you like it because the topic at hand. And so I'm going to try not to overthink the editing like I would with everything else that I've done just because obviously the more you do the podcast and the more you talk about podcasting, then you tinker with things a lot more.

Fuzz Martin 8:55

Totally, I am 100% with you on that. I think there are definitely things that you can tighten up with your workflow. To cut a few you know, moments off there's one thing you know, I piped by Friday episode of Good Morning Podcasters about why I switched my podcast from my website from Squarespace over to podcast Because I wanted to cut out that time it took for me to spin up a web page each episode. And now it's like done, it's automatic. So anywhere that you can cut out some of that time is great. And to be honest, like I have I have an employee named Steve. He's fantastic. He's an awesome like one of the best designers I've anybody would ever meet. He's hastiness. I don't know

Jeff Townsend 9:44

if you listen, but Hey, Steve, he

Fuzz Martin 9:48

or whatever is in the office and we're hybrid. So he's in you know, probably three days a week. He is always listening to but watching YouTube versions of a wrestling podcast. So like, and I've heard them and they're not to your point. They're not like the highest quality audio. No, they don't have to be. It's been talking about this subject matters. What matters if you have the subject matter if you have the people like this celebrity, the guest, you know, like that. That thing that people want, they'll get over small audio problems. Now, I will tell you this, there is a podcast that I listened to. There's there's two so I listened to a podcast called Putting on airs, which is with comedian named Trey Crowder and a comedian named Cory, Cory Ryan forester, Cory Ryan forester, the pot that podcast putting on airs. Sounds fantastic. They have another podcast that's produced by a different person. It's called the well read podcast and every episode, one person is barely audible. And the other the other sound okay. And that one, I just stopped listening, because it's hard to listen to that. So yeah, it has to be like, audible. It can't be. It can't be, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect. I guess that's what I'm getting to. Doesn't have to be perfect. But it does have to be listened double. Yeah, that sounds right. Yep, exactly. Right. But I think that you are sitting on the edge of something great with the wrestling podcasts and the people that you're connecting with. I think that's awesome. And to me, and my honest opinion, giving you like if I'm playing program director for the Jeff Townsend show, I'd say skip this show that we're doing skip the Indiana stories, skip the indie podcasters do the tanner Campbell thing and go all in with a niche that you're going to people are still people who know you and love, you are going to still follow that but just be the wrestling guy. And tasty.

Jeff Townsend:

You know, really, it's just it's going to be fun. But also I'm going to keep involved with this community as well. I'll do things like this every week might be hard, but still bought in partially to Good Morning. Podcasters even though I have no credits in it cuz fuzz won't give me any. I still owe him more money, I think but no, I'm just kidding. I'm seriously you guys. I I like being a part of things to collaborate, because I'm going to be handling the ball on those. So I'm more than welcome. Like Indiana stories. I'd like to find somebody to work with on that. Yeah, cuz it's performed very damn well. And I don't think it's such a this should just get ditched completely. So I'd love to figure out somebody that could kind of pick up the ball and run with it. And I'll support him.

Fuzz Martin:

Center personality, you know, in the station group that you work with that maybe you could, you're tight with it. Maybe you can make that happen.

Jeff Townsend:

Yeah, it's funny you say that? Because today I actually thought of an idea with somebody and I ran it by him, you know, whether that were that a girl or not? I don't know. But I'm going to run it by him. But yeah, I don't. I don't know. Yeah, but I think it's definitely worth keeping, though. It's done really well, people seem to really like it. And there seems to be a niche for it. But yeah, so I don't know, we'll see what happens. Hopefully, I don't know if I'm on the edge of something big. But I'm definitely doing things that I've always wanted to do. And I'm excited about it because it is a grind. These things don't happen overnight. You have to build a little bit of trust with people, you have to have people put in a good word for you. And it's you just hope the hard work pays off when you're doing it. That's that's why it's important to stick with it though even though podcasting does suck. But you got to stick with it because

Fuzz Martin:

it does, I guess to my point. And I hate always bringing up Tanner's name. But the fact of the matter is that podcasting sucks was Tanner's baby, and Good Morning. Podcasters was he the reason that we're doing this here right now on this channel is because he walked away from this to go do the thing that he saw his opportunity and and I see that opportunity for you from like I see a similar direction for you. But you have to be willing to give up all of the ancillary stuff that you're used to and the inertia to say, Okay, I'm going to make a drastic change. No, like, Tanner's really good at making like, Okay, I'm going to delete this website and every single freaking episode.

Jeff Townsend:

Yes, exactly. I don't know if it's I don't know if it's a good thing. But

Fuzz Martin:

nevertheless, I don't know if that's a good thing either. But for him, it works, right? Yep. And he went all in and I respect the hell out of that.

Jeff Townsend:

Well, it doesn't work every time right. It's the hard work and right repetition that until he found something that really took off. He's done well, but to this point knows it's that repetition. It's that hard work. And he's willing to make his willingness to make sacrifices and take big risk.

Fuzz Martin:

So I'm gonna, absolutely right. Yeah, that's absolutely right. So I have a goal. Now I'm going to try and shoot for. So we, we took over the Good Morning Podcasters. And podcasting sucks piece on, it was on Halloween. First episode of Good Morning Podcasters was on of the new version was on November 1 2022. I want to try to hit my, my big goal is 20,000 listens by October 31. This year, which I will throw money behind, and I will do some of that stuff. So I'm at almost 2000. Now, after not even 90 days yet. So starting to amp up, things are starting to go I spent some money on Reddit ads, and those seem to work, okay. But I need to get to about 120 ish. Average listens, which means that toward the end of the year, you're gonna be closer to 200 listeners per episode or like 165 or something like that. Yeah.

Jeff Townsend:

I mean, obviously, Andy podcaster. Was is was did really well. But for me, I don't know if I have any plans of making any more episodes for that. Any content I create somewhere to that will probably funnel through some of the stuff we're doing here. Yeah, I know that we've I've sent you some emails about some people that could and like your improv thing was great. You know, I just when I think of improv, I think of me going out and just shouting swear words in the street randomly. Like you turn something like that, which makes total sense into where it relates to podcasting. And I like to do that on any podcast or to not sometimes I'd bring in these people that were maybe artists, or were various different things, right. And it tied in. So I think that will funnel through the stuff that we're doing here. Because, again, that's a hell of a lot easier than just doing it everything by yourself, single handedly with a podcast, to supporting you with some content, etc. Will you know what we Why don't we can tackle it? Yeah, I think for me, it's it's it's funneling through what we've created here, a little bit as far as my podcast, about podcasting work. You know, we'll be involved with you so and whatever Greg would need, of course from noon to drop in. But yeah, yeah.

Fuzz Martin:

Any, any of these? We haven't had Greg on anything yet. We need to get him more involved, I think with this. So Greg, from indie drop, and I know he's got a lot of stuff going on as well. But yeah, it'd be fun to have him on at least maybe for an episode of podcasting sucks, or get him on some Good Morning Podcasters stuff. Now that I've now that I'm accepting interviews, on the show, I mean,

Jeff Townsend:

no, except in interviews. So we can almost we can almost get two episodes out of this one. This is kind of like an update. Yeah, we're at we're at 20 minutes already. And but this is we have been off for a little while, I've got a million different things I'm working on. You're working on a bunch of different things. But I will say that I've heard nothing but positive feedback about the way you're conducting and doing Good Morning. Podcasters. I think it's like, because Tanner, Tanner was podcasting sucks, right kind of has like my sense of humor on it. My take on it. That was his thing. So Good Morning, Podcasters almost felt like it wasn't natural for him. Yeah, like he almost had to act a little bit more lace tight than he is. But I think that's actually it fits with you perfectly. And people seem to be enjoying it. And like I said, you bring so many different dynamics to that program. That's just not. Let's talk about monetizing my podcast, let's talk about advertising. So to me, I always like out of the box thinking and I think you're doing a great job with that.

Fuzz Martin:

Well, I really appreciate that. And it's it's been fun. There's been some things where I'm like, Oh, I like do this every single day in like real world work. How can we bring this thing that we're talking about?

Jeff Townsend:

Because that's just, you know, that's the stuff that you've done for decades. You got to take your strengths, and you got to be able to use them. And you can do so many different things with podcasting is so many different things applied to and you have a lot of that knowledge.

Fuzz Martin:

Well, I appreciate that. And thanks to those who have, there have been people have left great comments and people have given me feedback on social media and such. And, you know, it's I feel like I'm starting to find the groove. You know, when you start something at first you're like, Am I doing this right? Is this worth it? Yeah. And you know, back to the point about the website, like, I was like I'm dying, putting all this gather every single episode. And I know like you, thankfully, Jeff, you and, and Greg have both like chimed in and said, Hey, if you need content, like, let me know, I will help you. And I appreciate that. And I think that will be important coming up and getting to that number of streams goal that I have is going to have to some of that coming up. But it's, it's starting to feel right and good and, and you know that that niche of, you know, not I don't never want to be a guru. And I don't want to pump people up, you know, there's plenty of people that can pump you up. So I just want people to know, some of the stuff that I know, so they can do better what they're doing, because there's a lot of stuff super easy. But people just don't know about it unless they do that for a living. So But anyway, I, again, I appreciate you saying that, thank you,

Jeff Townsend:

you also help out because like I said, we're just recapping here. And this first one, I guess, you also helped me out because with a lot of people that we work with, I'm not gonna say I brought you in the community, but certainly was like, Hey, this guy knows his stuff, he has a different approach to it, and I'm unorthodox myself, but you have you really appealed to the people that are that aren't going to spend a hell of a lot of money. And, and you kind of like base your episodes off of that, hey, if you want to spend money, this slave should do. But these are things you really required no money, just effort, and maybe some strategic planning.

Fuzz Martin:

I could go so I mean, our clients that I work with, you know, like, I run a $15 million a year company, we have clients that spend a whole lot of money to do some things. But I also know that most people who are the people that I think that I'm talking to, if I look at the audience, at least on Twitter, and and who I think I know, is listening aren't the ones that have $1,000 A month or some of them, you know, like, we're more than that to spend on advertising and marketing. If we wanted to get into that I could certainly get into that. I could we could go, we go deep in I got I got things. But I want to make it accessible to people. And, and I think that most of the people who are listening to the show are the ones who like, you can make some big steps with some simple moves, if you're just consistent and put in focused work, you don't have to go and do every single thing. But if you focus on some, if you have, you know, if you have like a couple 100 bucks a month is a lot of money to some people. But there are some things that you can do that can get listeners to your show. If you have $0 There are still some things that if you put in the time cost of doing that, that you can get people to listen and hopefully start to generate generate enough revenue, that you can start to spend more money and hopefully, you know, ballooned out into somebody who you know, is either picked up by a network or starting your own. So

Jeff Townsend:

yeah, and I think that in and we really connect with a lot of these people on podcasts and Power Hour especially, I don't think it's until you're doing it, it's kind of hard to like fully grasp how much time it takes. Because there's so much time that we're putting into these podcasts and about podcasts and stuff that is not going to be recognized. It's a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. For me, it's it's Twitter, DMS, it's a lot of stuff like that it's a lot of networking, check this person out, they're an expert at it, and stuff like that, as you've as you've been getting into as well. That's the kind of stuff that we're not we don't talk about on our shows, that takes up quite a bit of time and effort. But that's some of the work that you have to put in to lay that foundation for these content creators.

Fuzz Martin:

Yeah, I you know, one thing I miss about doing that, when, when there was the Good Morning Podcasters discord like that there was a lot of interaction on that of like, how to help. And I, I want to help I guess that's why I'm doing that I'm not Yeah, you know, I guess I want to make some money doing what I'm doing here on this, but I've got a job that pays really well. I've got a business.

Jeff Townsend:

We have good jobs. We're fortunate. Yeah, yeah. So

Fuzz Martin:

I like and I don't and I'm that's not me bragging. That's me saying, I want to do this and share this. I don't want to do this because I need to do this to keep the lights on. I understand that people who are listening may want to do that. And I'm going to help give them some ways that they can get there. But that's my goal is really to educate. That's it. So

Jeff Townsend:

I've been things always my big thing has always been don't go running before you know how to walk. Sometimes it's as simple as that with a lot of the people that we interact with. You'd be surprised when you hear that. But yeah, it's just the fundamentals kids the fundamentals,

Fuzz Martin:

right. Yeah. Yeah, there was a there was a person who join us for a podcast in Power Hour, Stephanie. And I forget her last name at the moment. And she was asking us what, what she needs to podcast. And then we find out that she has like, a great microphone, and a road caster and all this stuff.

Jeff Townsend:

Your life story is She's a news. She's a pretty, she's done a lot of stuff on news outlets, politically speaking. So okay, the CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, she has some credentials to go behind that. But to the point is you're about to get into that, does it mean that she is ready to so called run when it comes to podcasting?

Fuzz Martin:

Correct? Yeah, so she has all the gear, she has all the stuff, it was like, really just like, putting it together? Like, how do I make, you know, kind of the things that we talked about? And Good Morning Podcasters? Like those? How do we make those things work? In order to lift this up and get this going? And that's, you know, I just want to support that. But again, I appreciate all of your support. And and you're, you know, you, you know, I said some of them, I'm not sure if you brought me into this community or not, but you certainly didn't welcomed me into this and say, Hey, do you want to be a co host on podcast and Power Hour, and that's kind of how this relationship with you and Greg kind of bloomed. And I appreciate that. And it's fun, I enjoy it. And I'm having a good time. And I feel like I've got a little space that I am having fun creating. And I appreciate everybody's listening. So

Jeff Townsend:

we're wrapping this episode up, but you are getting a workflow and we've talked about that previous episodes, that's been critical. You have consistency in regards to Good Morning Podcasters. Even though I've messed this up all the time. Podcasts sucks, but you have a system go in there and it's working for you. And it's starting to pay off. Obviously, I get to see the downloads as well, we I have access to that. And you can see the climb, steady climb, and this is when consistencies play paying off. So yeah, well done.

Fuzz Martin:

Thank you appreciate that. And, uh, you know, sometimes podcasting sucks, but the goal of both Good Morning Podcasters and podcasting sucks is to make it suck less. And we appreciate

Jeff Townsend:

ya, absolutely. And there's the recap. Podcast and sucks we'll go on as available. Navy, it's not just going to be us, maybe other people be into it. Maybe we'll build a turn some dynamics around on this. And I think it's endless possibilities. This is just a an extra component. And it's always fun to podcast with other people, not just yourself. So I'm sure as part of the 40 is a good recap.

Fuzz Martin:

Yeah, great recap. And thanks again for listening podcasting sucks available on the Good Morning Podcasters feed. And Jeff we will talk to you next time these episodes for podcasting sucks when they come up. They come out on Saturday mornings

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About the Podcast

Good Morning Podcasters!
Marketing, Advertising, PR and Social Media Tips for Podcasters
Good Morning Podcasters explores marketing, advertising, public relations, and social media topics as they relate to podcasting and content creation. The show is hosted by Fuzz Martin—an agency owner and former broadcaster. The show is published on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, with regular bonus episodes of "Podcasting Sucks!" with co-host Jeff Townsend on Saturday mornings.

About your host

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Fuzz Martin

Fuzz Martin is a partner and Chief Strategy Officer at EPIC Creative in West Bend, Wis.